Talos the Conqueror, Vivec the Teacher, and the Lessons

I think the best way to start this off is to look at the universe. The famous Wheel we have been taught by Vivec. Further than that, we have the Triune House:

The magical cross is an integration of the worth of mortals at the expense of their spirits. Surround it with the triangle and you begin to see the Triune House.

The 3 corners are, most likely, either ALMSIVI or Boethiah, Mephala and Azura. This in particular is unclear, as Azura and Mephala are “the twin gates of tradition” but Boethiah is “the secret flame” and according to this picture we see what has been most widely regarded and accepted as Boethiah outside of the triangle. Regardless, there is the Triune and separated within are the 4 corners of the House of Troubles: Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath and Malacath. Further along this triangle as mentioned in Sermon 13 is relevant to the entire universe, or at the very least the whole Mundus depending on where you consider “the beginning place” and the “foul lie” to be.

ALMSIVI are the anticipations of the Triune House. Vivec perhaps the most successful and rightly so as

I am become the voice of ALMSIVI

made him pretty well known. He’s also shared the most knowledge on the world than any other being I can think of and in my view there is only one figure shrouded in mystery, mastery and mercy more than ALMSIVI and that is Talos. Likewise, I think his relationship with Vivec should be explored.

The first thing I want to bring in is that Talos is many things, but undeniably he is the god of conquest. Vivec even called him as “the Red Jewel of Conquest”, whom both he and Nerevar had dreamt of.

Now, let’s look at Talos as the Ruling King. I say this, at least, as I believe Talos is the Ruling King and here’s why:

Because a ruling king that sees in another his equivalent rules nothing

Sums up Talos perfectly well. Sword at the Centre, 9^th Divine, god of Conquest, all perfectly fine names but the Ruling King fits him so well. Why? Because he is the Ruling King who rules nothing. That which he conquered does not exist. He is identified by title as “The two-headed ruling king”. He sees in another his equivalent (and not to make a reference to Animal Farm, but also that his “most equal” would be Vivec, his tester and teacher.). I AM AND I ARE ALL WE is an aiding factor in his role as conqueror of the Mundus. First as men he conquered Tamriel, then as Divine he conquered the Mundus by cementing its existence. Talos must conquer, to do otherwise is to betray his nature; Talos knows the lie of the Mundus but loves his servants, the logic of I AM NOT is undermined by the passion that he must rule even if it is nothing.

The ruling king is to stand against me and then before me.

This quote is most often used in reference to the Nerevarine, not Talos or the individuals of Talos, due to the “he is to come as male or female” line. Though it is not so different from Talos, whom stood against him as Tiber Septim and Ysmir Wulfharth and likely stood before him as Wulf or any other of his avatars that Vivec has met (which his Morrowind dialogue suggests there’s a fair few of). At least, the murder parts can be linked back to

I will murder him time and again until he knows this.

He is to learn from my punishment

This can be taken two ways, both applicable. One being more obvious as through his deaths as Ysmir Wulfharth and Tiber Septim Talos could have learned from his killing by Vivec. The other way, which I like more, is how Talos could learn to use CHIM to aid his people most. Where Vivec tried to keep Love in the minds and hearts of the Dunmer he did so through future punishment, that if they ever forget it they will be destroyed. Talos learned from Baar Dau and he learned that Love must be shown and taught in some way, thus he chose to change his land from unforgiving to something more forgiving for his people to forget the harsh cruelty of their past. Remember, the quote is “Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown” not the power of “Tiber Septim” or Hjalti or Wulfharth or Arctus (or Pelinal, but that’s a theory for another time).

Before going further, let me be clear: Vivec taught Talos these things, the obscure and mystical nature of the ascended states for he became a “ruling king of this world” (Sermon 4) and his mastery allowed him to test Talos for the part of Ruling King above all others (except for possibly Vivec’s lover).

However, this can be disputed especially considering these

The ruling king is armored head to toe in brilliant flame.

Something Vivec is attributed with

The Sharmat is his double, and therefore you wonder if you rule nothing.

Which, though can be linked to Talos, is undermined by

Hortator and Sharmat, one and one, eleven, an inelegant number. Which of the ones is the more important? Could you ever tell if they switched places? I can and that is why you will need me.

However, we don’t know that Hortator refers to Nerevar specifically as Hortator is the position of war leader, something Talos definitely was, however it’s more likely linked to Nerevar due to the Sharmat connection. But again, war leader definitely attributes to Talos and “needing Vivec” aids the theory that Vivec taught Talos several things he would need.

Though the biggest quote against this is

the third of the three lessons of ruling kings:

The ruling king will remove me, his maker.

Which using the term “me” definitely links closer to Vivec and Nerevar, as if Talos were to remove his maker, he would have to remove Auri-El, Lorkhan and possibly either Magnus or Trinimac. Whilst most of those are gone, we know that Lorkhan, dead or not, is still floating around (unless Jone and Jode are the real deal). Plus, he would also have to remove Akatosh due to Hjalti/Tiber’s Dragonborn-ness.

But again, we have an issue with Nerevar’s part.

Nerevar was greeted by the Parliament of Craters, who knew him by title and resented his presence, for he was to be a ruling king of earth

And with that, we know Talos has big importance on Mundus, much more than just Nirn.

Regardless, Talos is the conqueror of the Mundus, Vivec the theif of it, all that’s missing is the one that links Talos the conquerer and whoever the Amaranth is to Vivec. This is the biggest sign of mastery that Vivec could do, that he would teach the Ruling King his role of this (fake) world and the Amaranth their path to becoming king of something as opposed to king of nothing (depending on who the Amaranth is).

What do these two close beings do now? they talk and meet each other, apparently, though what two gods of self-loving selflessness talk about is beyond me.