The Republic, Book 1.

The following is part 1 of what is (hopefully) going to be a 10 part hypothetical philosophical discussion between Talos, The Mane and Vivec, loosely based on Plato's Replublic (some quotes are directly ripped from it.)

V = Vivec, T = Talos, M = The Mane.

 

 

M: What is just?

T: Just? Justice is telling truth and paying debts. It is doing good to your fellows, and doing otherwise to your adversaries. Why do you ask?

M: At a meeting of minds such as this, to not discuss would be, well, unjust.

V: No.

M: No?

V: No. Tiber is wrong.

T: Care to explain?

V: To only do good to friends and only do evil to your adversaries is not only not always just, it is often wrong.

T: Under what circumstance would you do wrong to your friend?

V: If a madman lent me a sword five years ago, when he was in his right mind, should I then give him back his sword now, him being insane?

T: Of course not.

V: Right you are, it would only serve to further his destruction, and the destruction of others.

T: What of helping your enemies?

V: You were quite the general yes? You will understand. Suppose you were fighting two armies, one smaller, one larger. If you were to put aside your differences with the smaller army to defeat the larger, that would be logical. Thereafter you could stomp the smaller one. This would be tactically sound.

M: But would it be just?

V: Justice is nothing else than the interest of the stronger.

M: You say that justice favours the advantaged, but I say that advantage favours the just.

V: Not true. A hard working man, just, will slave for a day for a gold coin, and an unjust thief can work for five minutes to steal it. The hard working man has, according to you, right on his side, but the thief has the gold. And he will return to his hideout, and he will profit. If justice gives advantage to the just man, how does this manifest?

T: A thief cannot function in a perfectly unjust manner. If he were to sell out his fellow thieves, he would find himself dead, fast. And if all thieves were to be totally unjust, the just guards would annihilate them. A house divided cannot stand.

M: Yes, I agree with Talos in this regard. All profit retained by thieves is an indirect result of the remnants of their honour. Is there no honour in thieves according to you Vekh?

V: A true unjust man is just when justice suits his unjust needs. The thief in this scenario is unjust, steals the coin, shows his power and is just.

M: In his vulgar display of power is he not evil and therefore unjust?

V: No. Evil is not a property of strength, it is a property of discord, because as we said before, to be truly 'unjust' as you would say would be to be weak, as it would not be advantageous.

T: If everybody helps themselves, is not then everybody hindering everybody else?

V: Only if everybody is idiotic. If everybody is to help themselves they would forsee that sometimes mutual help is self help. A prolonged small advantage is better than short term large advantage.